The Jair Jurrgens Rule #6
Should we re-evaluate decisions made by the league/commish that involved the rewarding of a player due to a multi-player deal. For example, the league voted to award to 101 the player in the Jair Jurrgens/Gorkys Hernandez trade. In hindsight, it’s VERY obvious that we made the wrong decision. I believe in cases of black and white mistake rulings, a compensation pick, say between the 3rd and 4th round, should be awarded to the wronged team, in this case JM.
So we fix a mistake 3 years later? I thought we addressed this last year going with prospect ranking from BA,BP ect.
Yes, I think we fix a mistake. It’s pretty clear that JM got the wrong end of the deal here.
“I thought we addressed this last year going with prospect ranking from BA,BP ect.”
- first I’m hearing of this.
Another problem with awarding a compensation pick is this: We’ll use an example from last year. EE drafted M. Pineada in round 12. What happens if Pineada and say J. Weeks are traded for A. Dunn. obviously weeks gets Dunn. Would you then propose that you receive a compensation pick between the 3rd and 4th round for Pineada?
I don’t see that as fair compensation. But that’s just me.
I honestly don’t know what the comp should be, between the 3rd and 4th was a suggestion.
I don’t understand your scenario…why would a comp be rewarded for Pineada?
I might be wrong, I thought it was mentioned at the winter meeting on how we handle deals involving prospects. We probably didn’t vote on it, just sounded familiar to me.
Ya, I don’t recall it. I think it’s just commish discretion.
I know there is something we use the prospects ranking for, and it has to do with trades
Can someone refresh my memory on the Gorkys/Jar mishandling? Thanks.
Pineada comp might not have been the best scenario. I guess what i’m saying is we need to be careful giving away 3rd or 4th picks if the talent lost doesn’t justify it.
Rich is right, we do have a rule in place that only gives compensation when players are lost to the NL. I’ll try and find it.
I agree, for arguments sake if Casey Kelly and Stolmy Pimental get dealt for Adrian Gonzalez , then 5 years down the road Kelly flops and Pimental turns into a Jurrgens . We get a pick 5 years later? I think we have to be careful with that one. Because we have compensation already in place to award a pick to a team that loses prospect( I think that is the rule I am thinking of)
Gorky and Jurrgens were traded to the NL for Renteria I believe. The league voted to award Renteria to 101, who owned Gorkys. In hindsight, it was the wrong decision since Jurrgens is lighting it up in the NL and Gorkys is stuck in AA with no real value.
I agree, we should be careful. At the same time, if Gorkys/Jurrgens resulted in Miguel Cabrera, and AG lost a shot at Miggy, I’m guessing a 3rd/4th wouldn’t be enough to justify the mistake. So we need to either find a middle ground or award a pick on a case by case basis. For example, if AG lost out on Miggy, I’d be okay with awarding him a pick between the 1st and 2nd round. But since he only lot Renteria, I think a later round pick is more fitting.
“Because we have compensation already in place to award a pick to a team that loses prospect( I think that is the rule I am thinking of)”
I don’t know this one, so maybe the rule isn’t needed.
I think that’s tough to change the draft 5 years later. I’d have to think about this. I know these things are out of our hands and that makes it tough for a team to swallow. What about compensating a team in the following draft with a 5th rounder maybe even a pick equal to where the lost prospect was drafted?…..ie Kelly/Pimental for Gonzo………we get a 6th round pick(not sure we drafted him)
I think the rule was put in place for multiple AL prospects going to the NL. Wieters/Matusz were dealt for Pujols………you lose Matusz for nothing, but he is a highly ranked prospect so you get a compensation pick
The rule we changed would now allow galvin a compensation pick for A. Miller in the Cabrera trade.
That’s a good suggestion, but not all guys lost in the trade are necessarily drafted. For example, if I lost Avila, he wasn’t drafted at all. I think it should somehow be tied to the talent that was coming back. And that’s obviously where it gets tricky, because it’s subjective. Like I said above, if Miggy was the guy coming back, I’d have no problem awarding a high pick to AG because Miggy is such a stud.
“The rule we changed would now allow galvin a compensation pick for A. Miller in the Cabrera trade.”
What was that rule?
That’s what I thought, we got a comp pick for losing Bradley to the NL going into last years draft. I didn’t know we awarded comp picks to guys lost via trade but what do I know.
“I think the rule was put in place for multiple AL prospects going to the NL. Wieters/Matusz were dealt for Pujols………you lose Matusz for nothing, but he is a highly ranked prospect so you get a compensation pick”
Got ya, makes sense, and I do recall this.
Alright. If most of you remember it that’s fine by me. Just putting my two sense in, that’s all.
Peaches 4 Life!
Also, I’m glad there is something already in place because I wouldn’t voted “NO” so hard against this rule all your heads would have been spinning. Fact.
Seacrest! Out!
I think going back in time to reward retroactive comp picks is a slippery slope. Take this example for instance: Prospect A and Prospect B are traded to the NL for Player C. At the time of the trade, prospect A is the higher ranked and regarded prospect, so subsequently his owner is awarded player C. The next season prospect A blows out his shoulder and never throws another inning of pro ball. Prospect B goes on to become a major league starter at average level. In the end, Prospect B provided more value, should his owner then be rewarded with a comp pick?
I think a lot of scenarios exist where this type of ruling would become a nightmare for the league.
I’m in favor of making the best, educated decision at the time of the trade in awarding traded players.
You make some good points. I guess the situation I’m trying to avoid hasn’t really happened yet, but definitely could at some point. For example, if the Gorkys and Jurrgens were traded for Miggy Cabrera, AG would’ve been wronged in a serious way right now.
I think if you have a prospect traded and dont get compensation (jair juerjens), you get a compensation pick at the end of the round in which he was originally drafted. I think it takes guess work out of it.
BTW, TUSA was the only team who voted in favor of AG in that deal, that decision was a joke in my mind. Bad day for SOT.
I do remember that Tillman was my only support for Jair. I fought the fight; but everyone else loved Gorkys. Gorkys will never be heard from again in Pitt.
What is this current prospect rule we have discussed above with the BA and BP lists?
From current copy of Constitution:
Compensation Draft MLB: A draft will be held after round 2 for MLB players lost the NL via Free Agency. In order to qualify for compensation a player must be top 3 vorp(see below for calculation) for each Infield position, top 10 for Outfielders, and top 20 for Pitchers(starters and relievers). The Team who loses the highest ranked player will pick first, and so on.
Vorp: Taking the average vorp over the past two seasons, with the most current season vorp counting twice.
Compensation Draft Farm: the draft will be begin after the second round immediately following the FA Supplemental Draft with the team losing the highest ranked farm picking first. Scenario: Rios/Snider get traded to St. Louis for Pujols. Rios owner would be able to take on pujols, while the team with Snider would receive a compensation pick in the upcoming draft.
Farm Supp Criteria: Top 20 in AL as rated by BA. BP, and John Sickels.
Supplemental Draft: Draft head immediately after the All-Star that allows a team to forfeit it’s 1st round selection for the upcoming draft, in order to add a player to it’s current farm system. The 20 player maximum still applies. A team may make room by trading or nuking a current farm player.
My bad. I forgot about the farm aspect of the compensation round.
Where can those Vorp ranking be found?