Trade Involving M. Cabrera & A. Vizcaino
I’m slightly behind addressing the recent trades involving Sot players being traded to the NL. While I’ll get to the prior trades over the next week, this current trade is a lot closer that I originally had thought. I’ve yet to take an official stance on whether WTNY or Soxin7 will be receiving Javier Vazquez. Of course WNTY is making a push for his rite to claim Vazquez, and while I still feel like Soxin7 should receive Vazquez, I want to reach out to the rest of the league to see if anyone thinks WTNY lost the more valuable SOT player.
Thoughts/Comments/Concerns?
I think this one qualifies as a no brainer… hell, it was WTNY who for years tried to convince us of the great talents melky has!!
I would lean toward Melky s well. But maybe we should include some sort of compnsation for trades like this.
We do have compensation setup for this. If Vizcaino lands in top 20 WTNY would receive a pick.
Is it top 20 overall or top 20 team prospects?
What the commish failed to mention, was that 24 hours before this trade, he had no idea who Arodys was. If he’s making the final decision here, I thought it would make more sense if he actually knew something about the players involved.
My question to the commish was, “What criteria do you use to determine who gets the player coming back from the NL?” I thought we used the “centerpiece of the trade” argument, in which case I would receive JV since Arodys was the centerpiece here. However, the commish said we use “more SOT trade value,” which is logical, and in this case, I assume Si7 would receive JV since 50% of the league probably has no idea who Arodys is (looking at the spreadsheet from the 2009 draft, the commish didn’t have him on my roster).
After understanding the criteria we use, I told the commish that I assume most would take Melky, since he’s the more common name to everyone. However, I personally would prefer the potential of a top of the rotation arm, considered to be the Yankees best pitching prospect, over a 3rd/4th OF’er. There’s a reason Si7 was able to select Melky off the Free Agent wire – those types are readily available. Ideally, you get those guys when they’re making no money, like Melky was. However, he’s now looking at approximately $3M in 2010, which makes him less attractive. There’s really no debate here, I was looking for clarification on what criteria we used in this situation. Once it was explained to me, I conceded that most would take Melky in this spot because he’s in the bigs vs my pitching prospect that will be in AA at the end of 2010.
You heard it here first…Gorkys/Jurrgens Part II.
Sot says:
December 27, 2009 at 5:17 pm
We do have compensation setup for this. If Vizcaino lands in top 20 WTNY would receive a pick.
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This looks off to me, we should probably expand this. I’m not just saying this because of Arodys, and if we do change it, we can say Arodys doesn’t apply to the rule change. But top 20 isn’t enough. Is this top 20 in MLB or top 20 in AL?
AA? He might, but he hasn’t even thrown more than 80 inning above short season ball. I remember a guy just like him named Dellin Betances and he just had TJ surgery. If he is a top 20 guy don’t you get compensation for him? Although, I doubt he will even be a top 20 prospect. I was able to trade DeJesus for a 3rd round pick and Melky is extremely similar in stats and cheaper. So I’m pretty sure Melky has a lot more value in SOT than a 19 year old who hasn’t pitched above short season. I actually don’t think this is really that close
I think the Gorkys argument hurts you Galvin. When that deal went down Gorkys was considered the better prospect and Jair had already made his ML Debut. Today Jair is the #3 on a pretty good pitching staff and Gorkys is tumbling in the Pirates Org after being traded yet again. Just goes to show when a kid is the man in A or AA, still takes a lot to make it to the bigs. Melky was a FA cause it looked like Gardner was going to be the starter. Gardner was drafted in the 3rd rd I beleive.
It may be time to start looking at the Miller Maybin ruling….
Si7 – I’m agreeing with you, I believe Melky does have more value in SOT among owners. I’m just disagreeing that he should, that’s all. And not to bust your balls, but I’m guessing you had no idea who Arodys was prior to last week, right? I understand why you wouldn’t, he’s 19 and hasn’t played full season yet – far off the radar. But at the same time, he was the Yanks #1 pitching prospect, and has the “front of the rotation” tag attached to him. To me, I’d prefer to roll the dice on that type of player, than take a 3rd/4th OF type. The Melky’s of the SOT world can be acquired all season long (and don’t overlook the $3M pricetag on him now, he’s not cheap). There’s no chance I’d trade Arodys for a 3rd round pick, so I’m not sure the Dejesus trade offer is helping your argument. If both Arodys and Melky were in our draft this year, is it a slam dunk that Melky gets picked before Arodys? I say no.
Tillman – I completely understand that Arodys is years away, and there’s a chance that he never sniffs an inning in MLB. My argument is that I’d rather the upside of an Arodys, which is a front of the rotation starter, over what Melky brings, because I can find many Melky’s in SOT land. I’d argue that Melky is hurting a roster. OF is a position where you need production. Melky is a below avg contributor for his position. Plenty of those guys out there, and now he’ll be making $3M+.
But yes, the better question is, if both Melky and Arodys were FA’s entering the SOT draft, who would get selected first? BP listed Arodys as a 4 star prospect (#2 in their system), BA listed him as the #1 pitching prospect for the Yankees (#3 in their system), Law and Badler say he’s a future #1-#2. Tazawa, who Mike drafted in the 2nd round last year, was listed as a 3 star prospect by comparison. That type of player goes in Rd 2-3 of the SOT draft. Does Melky?
I think we might need to tweak minor league compensation. We have too many prospects now to just say Arody’s isn’t top 20 so he is worthless.
“It may be time to start looking at the Miller Maybin ruling….”
Just want to point out I don’t like revisiting trades and then rewarding compensation for a mistake.I say lets take care of it now when the trades occur expand comp for minor league players that are traded to the NL.
I agree Richie, we should expand outside of the top 20. Do you know if it’s the AL top 20 or MLB top 20?
I don’t know if we do MLB or AL top 20……We should be doing AL.
Current Rule from Constitution:
Farm Supp Criteria: Top 20 in AL as rated by BA. BP, and John Sickels.
Think we should remove Sickels for KLAW. Thoughts?
I like that, Mikey.
Why does it have to be restricted to 3 sources? Why not just add K.Law’s list as a 4th source for top prospects?
Also, I think we should discuss expanding it to top 50 AL or appearing in the top 100 overall list. What if for discussion, there are not 20 top AL prospects on the 100 lists?
I agree it needs to reach beyond the top 20.