Cunningham vs. Haiston
Not sure what the commish ruling will be on this but I hope it goes to vote and here is why. Combined we own 80 minor league guys, Hairston was traded to the AL for not one of them thus becoming a FA in SOT. Cunninham came over in the Harden deal. Cunningham has always been a top prospect in the Oak system. With the acquisition of CoCo, Hairston was relegated to 4th OF. Last season Hairston was dealt to Oak for a bag of balls, not sure how he would be key peice coming back to SD. Just my two cents.. I’m TUSA and I approve this message.
I’m not familiar with Haiston; but I’m sure WTNY will have something to say about Hairston.
I can make a case for both players. Had no idea cunningham was part of the deal until late last night.
Not my words; but interesting take on both guys non the less…
“Hairston was acquired from the Padres just last July and his run with Oakland can’t be described much kinder than “awful””
“It’s silly to say that Beane sold high on Cunningham. Instead, it seems he sold before Cunningham lost too much of his previous luster. Whether the A’s simply held low evaluations of Cunningham nowadays or he was lost in a numbers game is a mystery.”
Pat, are you drinking before work? Cunningham was part of the Haren deal, along with Chris Carter, Brett Anderson, Carlos Gonzalez, Greg Smith and Dana Eveland. The “bag of balls” Hairston was traded for? That was Sean Gallagher, Craig Italiano, and Ryan Webb. The same Sean Gallagher that was traded for Rich Harden.
As I learned in the Melky trade, the “centerpiece” argument holds no weight. SOT is about precedence, right?
2009:
Melky – 274/336/416 13HR 10SB
Hairston – 265/307/456 17HR 11SB
Pretty similar players. I made the argument in the Melky deal that I should’ve been awarded Javier Vasquez because 4th OF types like Melky are easy to find and top prospects (Arodys) are more desirable. However, the commish disagreed and decided to award Melky to Si7 because of Melky’s SOT contribution. I don’t see how this deal is any different.
To be clear that exact A’s/ Cubs deal was…
Harden with Chad Gaudin to the Chicago Cubs for Josh Donaldson (minors), Sean Gallagher, Matt Murton and Eric Patterson.
I really can’t say I’m confident about which teams get 1st rights to Kouzmanoff. Niether player is desirable. Both players were going to be extra outfielders for Oaklnad this year. With that be said, if you had to put a gun to my head and force me to choose one of the players going forward, I’d personally choose Cunningham.
My reason for choosing Cunningham is simply age. Hairston will be 30 this year and doesn’t appear to be a regular going forward. While Cunnigham may never play everyday. To me they are very similar, but I’ll take the unknown of the young guy verse the 30 year old 4th outfielder.
I’m not sure how the league wants to handle this. I’d be a lot more comfortable going with a league vote on this.
So a 4th OF’er in Melky gets traded, and you decide he’s desirable, no vote necessary. The same player, going by a different name (Hairston) gets traded, and he’s not desirable?
In 2009, Cunningham’s last year with “prospect” status, he was not a top 100 prospect. In 2010, Arodys Vizcaino will be a top 100 prospect. So let’s add this up…
Two similar players (Melky & Hairston), Arodys the higher ranked prospect, but somehow the team with Cunningham gets first choice. How you can take the unknown of the young guy in one trade, and not in another, is baffling. I said you were wrong in the Melky decision, but clearly you set precedence, which is what SOT is all about (see end of 2009 season – Mazzaro/Floyd situation). Somehow precedence gets thrown out the window in this scenario. Typical DMB I guess.
JM, thanks for the clarification. Anything else to add?
Yes, it’s close but I think Cunningham is the more valuable piece to this deal. Also, I think Arodys was the more valuable in the Vaz deal.
WTNY, how about all the facts. Age in both trade scenario’s was the determining factor is both of my decisions. Especially the one with Hairston being a 30 year old 4th of, who has accumulated over 400 ab’s 1 time in his career. As opposed to Melky, 26, who has already had 4 seasons north of 400 ab’s while coming into his prime.
A 26 year old OF making under 3M carries a lot more weight than some 19 year old pitcher yet to pitch above rookie ball.
Ask yourself and the rest of the league which player you would want on the roster going forward, I believe it’s Cunningham. If you feel this an error please ask for a league vote.
Chris how come you didnt ask for a league vote in the JV deal? I never researched that deal because it didnt go to vote. I think it would have been close.
Why all this ‘precedence ‘ talk? Precedence is irrelevant when talking about two different players. Cunni and Hairston are NOT the same player so precedence goes out the window I would think.
If this goes to vote I’ll give it its due dilligence (sp)
Melky and Hairston had similar 2009 seasons, and are similar players, regardless of age. Players like Joey Gathright, Brian Anderson, Melky Cabrera, Scott Hairston, Travis Buck, David Murphy, Matt Joyce, etc are who they are, and just because they’re 27, doesn’t mean they suddenly turn into 300/400/500 guys. Neither stats nor scouting reports believe Melky will turn into anything more than he is now. Your suggestion that age is the reason you believe he’s more valuable is pie in the sky talk. A hitters career path isn’t linear, especially ones who’ve never shown the power numbers or scouting reports to suggest that he’s anything more than a 4th OF type. But last month, that was good enough to say he’s the more valuable player.
Peter, I didn’t suggest a league vote because Mike said it was his call and Si7 would get access to JV, no vote. It should be noted that Mike also had no idea who Arodys was at the time of the trade, although I’m not sure he’d admit that.
It’s my preference that all of these go to league votes, and if everyone agrees that Cunningham is more valuable, so be it. But when the JV deal didn’t go to league vote, and now Mike says this one should, that’s my issue.
Precedence talk was related to Melky vs Hairston, not Cunni vs Hairston. Mike set the precedence by stating that Melky was more valuable. Yet when the same type of player gets traded a month later, for a LOWER RANKED prospect, Mike decides that type of player is no longer valuable.
One more thing:
“A 26 year old OF making under 3M carries a lot more weight than some 19 year old pitcher yet to pitch above rookie ball.”
First of all, Melky is making $3.1M, and had the same numbers as Hairston last year. Melky isn’t a projectable “tools guy” who’s expected to really take off at age 27, that’s never been said about him, just from you. And Arodys did pitch above rookie ball, but are you suggesting young pitchers have no value?
So if Casey Kelly, Martin Perez, Alexander Colome, Michael Ynoa, Matt Moore, Mike Montgomery, or Casey Crosby were in the Melky trade, JV would’ve still been awarded to Si7? All of these guys were between 18-20 (except Ynoa) and pitched in A ball at some point during the 2009 season. All of these guys were also rated by BP as 4 or 5 star prospects, and all of these guys will be Top 100 prospects in Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus.
I’d be surprised if there’s one owner in this league that would take Melky over that group, and Arodys is in that same group, whether you know who he is or you don’t. There was a mistake made on that trade, and at minimum should’ve gone to a vote.
For the record, this statement is pretty funny. “Mike said it was his call.”
Let me know if you want an official league vote here.
This is news to me, are these type of decisions not made by you? And can you tell me one reason why I wouldn’t want a vote?
I realize a league-wide vote brings into play teams making decisions based on the owners involved, but I’d rather give eight owners the chance to voice their opinion than one owner. Also, to be clear, the voting criteria should be, “if player A and player B were free agents, which one would you select first.” Or, “if both Melky/Hairston and Arodys/Cunningham were in the upcoming SOT draft, who would you take first.” Based on that, I’d vote for Arody’s over Melky, and Cunningham over Hairston.
I’ve been consistent all along, I’d prefer the unknown upside of players like Arody’s and Cunningham over the 4th OF types like Melky and Hairston.